One of the most vocal politicians who has taken the government head on over the JNU row and the Rohit Vemula case is CPI(M) General Secretary Sitaram Yechury. He has taken on Smriti Irani accusing her of turning the Human Resource Development ministry into a ‘Hindu Rastra Development’ ministry. Yechury has not only compared the current sitaution with Indira Gandhi's Emergency, he has gone on to say that it is much worse. Yechury says in 1975 while it was an assault on democracy, but in 2016 it is also an assault on secularism. Here is the transcript of Sitaram Yechury's interview to CNN-IBN's Rupashree Nanda.
CNN-IBN: Today a new video has emerged of Kanhaiya giving testimony in front of the camera in which he clearly alleges that the police was present and watched as he was assaulted. He goes on to say that even in the court room, there was a breach of security when one person breached the security and assaulted him. He could identify the people and yet the police did not do anything?
Sitaram Yechury: Well this only re-confirms what we have said that this Government, the Modi-led BJP government has unleashed the beginnings of the creation of a police state in India. Using JNU as the pretext, or the launch pad, that is a better word, not a pretext, as the launch pad they are mounting an assault, I would say, an insurrection on the Indian Constitution. And that is what Kanhaiya's testimony now confirms- the fact that inside the court room, the temple of justice, you have the protectors of law and order, the police watching, standing there, under the very nose of those who are supposedly the upholders of law and order, the lawyers assaulting Kanhaiya and the other JNU students and the media personnel. All this happens there and, no action whatsoever is taken. Police does not interfere. What else is this but, a replay in a more vicious manner of what happened in the Emergency?
CNN-IBN: How do you say that it is a replay in a more vicious manner?
Sitaram Yechury: In the Emergency, I was also arrested, I was taken to the court. Later on, they say that it was a slip up, I was there in bailable charges. I was not and we were not assaulted in the court room.
CNN-IBN: So you are saying that the situation is worse today that it was during the Emergency?
Sitaram Yechury: In the Kanhaiya case...in that particular case. Whether it will be generalised for all, that time alone will tell us. But, it is a very clear pointer… till all the secular, democratic, progressive elements in our country unite to face this danger, we are in for a more authoritarian set up that is emerging in the country.
CNN-IBN: When we tried to reach the police commissioner Mr Bassi for his comments, he said that the matter was sub-judice. He is going to retire on the 29th. Should he be allowed to retire (not suspended) and later be rewarded or should he also face consequences for he has not been able to uphold the law?
Sitaram Yechury: See there are two aspects to it. Leave aside the retirement. Many people retire when their services are over but if they have abdicated their responsibility in upholding the rule of law then they must be legally proceeded against. That applies to anybody whether you are in services or you have retired. And that rule of the law must be upheld.
Number two, we have always said that this lure of a post-retirement position that the government has as Democlces sword in its hand, that is being grossly misused from the Judiciary down to every other area. And this is something on which there should be a legal position that should be taken. Say, for three years, they should not be appointed for any other position. That is what is called a cooling off period. That is something that has to be brought about and we have been asking for that in the Parliament.
And thirdly, as far as the Delhi police commissioner is concerned, he is obviously guilty of misdemeanour because he has publicly stated that these JNU students have to prove their innocence otherwise they will be considered guilty. He is turning the entire logic of jurisprudence in our country upside down. People are made to stand on their heads! Till now and even now - the principle of jurisprudence is that you are innocent till proven guilty. The police commissioner, as the police commissioner has inverted that logic.
CNN-IBN: Despite all the public outrage, evidences that are slowly emerging day by day, Home Minister Rajnath Singh has defended the police commissioner. He said that he has done his duty?
Sitaram Yechury: Well it is no longer a mystery what this Government is doing. Initially, it was thought that they were protecting the violaters of the law but now it is a much larger puzzle that is unfolding and what is the the larger puzzle? On every other front this Modi government has been a dismal failure. From economy to foreign policy to what they are managing in our country- there has been a complete lack of governance. And all the slogans that they gave during election campaign proved hollow.
The anger of the people is against that. How do you face it? You distract that anger and bring in this bogey of nationalism. It is a very, very essential patriotic quality among all Indians. They are now saying like George Bush used to say, 'are you with me or, with them? If you are there with the BJP and RSS you are nationalist, if you are not, you are anti-national.
CNN-IBN: Do you think they have succeeded polarising people? P Chidambaram talked about it on Saturday. He said the kind of polarisation seen today was seen only during Partition and the Babri Masjid demolition. Do you agree with what Mr Chidambaram said?
Sitaram Yechury: I would say the matter is much worse. During Partition, we were still emerging as a secular democratic republic. Our Constitution was not yet drafted and adopted. Babri Masjid time, yes Constitution was drafted, adopted but violated. But today, it is sixty years plus after this Constitution is been adopted. My generation was also born after we became a Republic. Now, after all these years of experience, such violation amounts to a very, very gross negation of what the foundations of modern India are.
CNN-IBN: We have seen debates in Parliament on the Rohith Vemula issue, over the JNU issue. But the debate has been highly vitriolic, highly divisive and, it is becoming clear that there is no common meeting ground between the opposition and the treasury benches. Does that worry you?
Sitaram Yechury: It worries me in the sense that the Government does not want a common ground. What they are seeking is polarisation. What they are seeking is a diversion of people’s anger against their failed performance and their betrayal of all the promises they made to the people. So they are using this as a political weapon to divert the attention of people away from their failures. So that is why there is no meeting ground. For them, these incidents are not the issue. We are all debating those incidents- what happened in JNU, what happened with Rohith Vemula. But, for them, that is not the objective. Their objective is to plunge the country into disturbing nationalism. If you are with them you are national, if you are not, you are anti-national.
CNN-IBN: In Parliament - we saw HRD minister speak on Goddess Durga, Mahisasur. She sought to strike an emotional chord. She portrayed as if she was the victim because she was being targeted as she contested from Amethi. How would you characterize her speech? Every comment that she has made has been contested by Rohith Vemula's mother Radhika, brother Raja?
Sitaram Yechury: As far as CPI(M) is concerned and I am concerned, we have never entered into a debate on any personal ground. Whether the HRD minister contested from Amethi or not is not the issue for us. All that we are saying is that this HRD minister is converting the Human Resources Development of which she is in charge into a 'Hindu Rashtra Development'. HRD today stands for 'Hindu Rashtra Development'. That is our charge. And we have contested every point and that is why on Saturday I had to tell the Parliament what is the Government's concern of who the people have faith in? Which God or Goddess? Is the Government going to say that my God is better that your God? There are people who follow Mahisasur, there are people who pray to Ravan but they are, in a modern democratic secular republic, equal citizens. I respect every individual's decision to have whatever faith they may want. I will defend that right till my last breath. But nobody has the right to interfere in the decision that other individuals take.
CNN-IBN: Why is the BJP-led NDA government doing this? Is it a sign of lack of confidence. Or is it confident that this will reap rich dividends electorally? Why is the government on the defensive? It has a brute majority in the LS.
Sitaram Yechury: Remember the majority in the Lok Sabha is made up of only 31% of the people who voted. 69% in the 2014 elections who voted, cast their vote against the BJP. The majority that they have is because of the peculiarity of the system we have. They do not have the majority of the people. They want to create that situation. There is a clear cut political motive of theirs. By polarising the Indian people, they are thinking that they will get electoral advantage. They are playing the worst vote bank politics.
CNN-IBN: While you have said that BJP-led NDA Government, the RSS they are to blame for this polarisation. But could the Congress party and the CPM also have played a part in it?
Sitaram Yechury: How? I was not even in Delhi when this happened in JNU. I flew in the morning when I met the Home Minister. When I landed in Delhi I got a call from my colleague in Rajya Sabha saying this is what has happened, we heard it in the news, so we are meeting the Home Minister and we want you to join and lead the delegation. I said 'fine'. I was in the University, I know what the University is all about. Remember this is not the first time RSS called JNU an Anti-National univeristy or a den of Anti-Nationals. They ( the RSS ) have been saying that in their editorials in their papers since I was a student there forty years ago. Now they have the reins of Government to control and to destroy the institutions in our country that continue to produce what we call, Sardar Patel called the 'steel frame of India'- your foreign service, your administrative service, your police service, your intelligentia,your media, your academia.. . look everywhere, you will find a JNU product there.
CNN-IBN: People would ask you Sir- would you support anti-national slogans allegedly shouted by some students and would you say shouting anti-national slogans amounts to sedition? What is your stand on sedition?
Sitaram Yechury: You see anti-national slogans nobody can support, nobody will support. And we have said it and very proudly said it. From the time that I was in JNU till today they have always upheld the unity and integrity of our country. But in the name of anti-nationalism, to foist charges, to destroy the universities- that is what we are opposing. Remember why is this entire concern today. Hitler used nationalism and you know what happened, where he led Germany to. It took the whole world a ghastly war to end Hitler and his fascism. So nationalism, how it has been used down the centuries to serve a political objective, an anti-democratic objective, that is there for all to see. And I am afraid that is what the RSS, BJP are trying to do in India.
CNN-IBN: What about Prime Minister Modi's charge? He was speaking in a rally in Odisha and he said that opposition and some foreign funded NGOs are trying to de-stabilize his government. He said that there are chants 'Modi ko maro, Modi go maro'?
Sitaram Yechury: Well this takes me back into my student days. Those days whenever we opposed a government policy, Mrs Indira Gandhi would say 'foreign hand'. Everything in the country was to be blamed to the foreign hand. Forty years down the line, a government of the modern Indian republic again goes back to foreign hand? Foreign-funded NGOs - CPI(M) was the first party in country, thirty years ago when we said you have to have proper monitoring of it and what they are doing. They didn't care at that time, they didn't care even after they came to power. They had power for six years under Mr Vajpayee. Why didn't they care? Because they were themselves recipients of huge amount of foreign funding. And we have seen that in Madison Garden in New York, we have seen that in Wembley in UK and we have seen that in Australia. Who is stopping any illegal activities from happening because of foreign funds are coming. You are the Government. Take action. But give credible evidence.
CNN-IBN: BJP's National Secretary from Tamil Nadu H Raja has said that if he is a patriot, D Raja should demand communists to shoot kill his daughter. H Raja has also described you and Rahul Gandhi as anti - national for taking part in JNU events. Kailash Choudhury, another BJP MLA from Rajasthan has termed Rahul Gandhi a traitor and demanded that the Congress Vice President should be hanged, shot. In Delhi itself, BJP MLA OP Sharma also said if he had a gun, he would also shoot those who shouted anti-national slogans? You have received threat calls. There are many other political leaders that I know of who are receiving threats. What does this signify?
Sitaram Yechury: Well it is the building up of a hate campaign against your political opponents. That is what it signifies. The trolling that goes against me, the hate campaign that goes against me and the calls and the smses that I get, I would only be happy that some people are getting employment doing all this. But they are spreading calumny and hatred. They are actually anti-national. They are dividing our country on the basis of hatred.
What is the meaning of telling one of our colleagues in the Rajya Sabha, leader of the Communist party of India that he should shoot his daughter? On what basis? On what definition of nationalism? It is the same law, 124 (B) that was invoked to arrest Mahatma Gandhi by the Britishers, that was invoked to arrest all our national movement leaders. It is the same section that was invoked to arrest Bhagat Singh, Rajguru and Sukhdev. Bhagat Singh kissing the gallows and becoming the immortal martyr of India was under the same law. If you want to place me in the same law, I would only be proud that I am there with all such giants- Gandhi, Bhagat Singh. This government is seeing me as equal to that stature …
CNN-IBN: Is it time for that law to be repealed now?
Sitaram Yechury: Of course. As I told you, I was born in post Republican India. The Supreme Court in a very, very significant landmark ruling said that sedition, if this law remains (whether it remains or not is the job of the legislature), if sedition remains, mere speeches is not sedition unless there is clear evidence that such speech is an incitement to violence. That has to be proved.
CNN-IBN: What do you have to say to Prime Minister Modi, to BJP President Amit Shah who takes this issue to the people and asks Congress Vice President to declare whether he is a national or an anti-national?
Sitaram Yechury: What they are asking is a self-declaration, a proclamation every minute that we are nationalists. Exactly like asking the Muslims by every breath to say that are Indian. Of course, we are Indian and of course we are nationalistic but its not their nationalism. You glorify Nathuram Godse, the murderer of Mahatma Gandhi as a national hero and I am anti-national? That is their definition of nationalism.
CNN-IBN: Will you be able to successfully contest this definition?
Sitaram Yechury: Of course, we will fight it. Indian people have fought the Emergency when all of us were arrested. What were we told? That we were being anti-national. We fought them, we restored democracy. Now they are doing that in order to destroy secularism. We will fight it. I have faith in Indian people.
CNN-IBN: So you are saying that this attempt (by the BJP) is not going to succeed?
Sitaram Yechury: No. As long as there are people like us are there and they are plenty, they are in majority, this is not going to succeed.
CNN-IBN: You have said that this is like a second Emergency? Would you still ....( stick to that)
Sitaram Yechury: It is worse …. First Emergency was an assault on democracy in India. This is an assault on secularism and democracy. So what they are preparing to mount is a much bigger attack and that is why I characterise it as an insurrection against the Indian Constitution.
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